Socrates seeks the ultimate gain of greater knowledge and truth. If there are lies for the soul, then he, along with the Athenian scholars, will not be able to search for the truth because he does not know if their rhetoric is tainted with lies. But where do these lies manifest themselves? For Socrates there is an empirical problem. The knowledge that Socrates needs, and that everyone should want to have, can only be received by educators who have not been predisposed to lying in speech nor to lying of the soul. The structures of our lives are laid as foundations